Kristen
Hey y’all on today’s episode, I am thrilled to introduce you to Kate Doster, who is an email marketing expert and just an all around powerhouse. She is joining me to talk about the ins and outs of email marketing specifically when it comes to what we can write in our emails. Kate is the host of the do the brave thing podcast and creator of the Love Your List 2.0 email marketing course. That course is actually where I was initially introduced to her. And I’m so excited to have her on the show today, you are going to love this episode.
Kristen
We’re diving in to topics like deciding what to email about getting past the initial writer’s block when you’re looking at that blank screen writing in a way that builds a real connection with your audience, and of course, how to convert our subscribers into buyers. So let’s get started.
Kristen
Okay, TPT sellers ready to seek growth in your business, you’re in the right place. Welcome to the savvy teacher seller. I’m Kristen Doyle. And I’m here to give you no fluff tools and strategies that will really make an impact on your sale. Let’s get started y’all.
Kristen
Welcome, Kate, thank you so much for being here today.
Kate
I’m so excited to be here.
Kristen
So why don’t you just tell us a little bit more about you and kind of where you got started and what you are doing in your business right now?
Kate
Sure, I would love to to! Hey, everybody, I am Kate doster of Katedoster.com. and it is my soul and souls mission to put money in the hands of good people. So you can do good with it and eradicate this idea that nice people have to finish last in business. So I focus a lot on email marketing and copywriting. Because when you’re able to write words that move people into action, that’s one of the most powerful skills that you can have, especially in the online space.
Kate
Even for like, oh, like, hey, what about short term video? Well, when you learn how to write an engaging sentence, you’re actually gonna learn how to make more engaging videos like it all just sort of stems on each other. So I tried to take the two things that people like hate the most, which is selling and writing and combine them. And that is what I help people now realize teachers might actually love writing. My audience, like still has a secret vendetta against her 10th Grade English teachers. She said not speaking from experience.
Kristen
Some of us I think, do enjoy writing, but not writing when it’s for business, things like the sales copy, and the emails and all of those things, because that just doesn’t come natural. A lot of us are what I’ve always called accidental entrepreneurs. We started kind of a hobby shop on TPT. And then realized, oh crap, I own a business. What do I have to do now? And we’re trying to learn those business skills. So definitely something that does not come natural for most of us, myself included, although I’ve learned a lot over the years. And also one thing I really love about you and one thing that really resonated with me is how you teach the sales copy without feeling salesy, and sleazy and bro marketing!
Kate
Yeah, I have to say the way that that we do things, you’ll hear us probably use the term listy because that’s what we call the students of love your list. And I find the reason why our methods work so well, is because we’re just treating people like people, like you can be very aggressive and Bro-y when you’re marketing to other marketers, but like real life, people do not like this very much. So when you just learn how to talk to people, like people and be like, oh, yeah, there’s this. It’s like, Oh okay!
Kristen
Yeah. So let’s dive into some questions I pulled kind of from what my teacher seller friends have been telling me that they struggle with the most. So first things first, what are we supposed to talk to people about? What tips do you have? I know a lot of us open up our email provider, or ConvertKit, or whoever. And we have no clue what to write. But we know we need to write an email this week. So what’s kind of for where to get started?
Kate
Sure. So first of all, what’s really great about teachers paying teachers, if you are a teacher, so you get it. So even if in every single email, you want to have like, say a resource of the week that you link to in the bottom, or that you have like a featured section. And again, because you are a teacher, you know, seasonally, like what’s going on? When do people use you sort of tackle this lesson? Where are they going to have like either this week or like next month coming up? So you get to plan ahead.
Kate
But being a teacher, you actually get to relate to them as a person. So it doesn’t doesn’t always have to be like, Oh, are you teaching quadratic formula this week? Like here’s this thing, right? You can talk about an experience that you had with a student that just does was not getting it or how the method that they talk about in textbooks does not relate to students who are so busy on their iPads and on their cell phones. Again, you can talk about those real world experiences.
Kate
You can talk even about in a different email as well, even a little bit about teacher burnout, right? Or about how you know, we always are reprimanding our students for taking shortcuts and for cheating, and it can feel like it’s cheating when you’re buying from teacher pay teacher, but really all you’re doing is opening up the headspace to be more creative, to be more present, to not be so stressed out. Right.
Kate
So now you’re talking to them like a human again, it’s thinking, what would make them not want to have your help? Right? That’s really what we’re getting at. And so what I like to tell my students because again, when you can talk about anything, nothing comes to your mind. So I really do stress for people to just sort of sit down and be like, Okay, I’m gonna email once a week, we’ll just say that it’s Wednesday, I’m looking at a calendar. Right now, there’s four Wednesday’s this month, I only need four things to talk about. And now all of a sudden, it’s like, oh, it’s so easy.
Kate
So whether or not you decide to sit down and write all four emails, or if you’re like us, we’re like, sometimes the content that we create, maybe isn’t necessarily done yet, or we don’t know it still, you when you have those topics, you can always sort of weave them in there. So it’s like, alright, we’re looking at this, you know, maybe it’s March. Okay, what are some things we typically talk about in spring? What are students dealing with in spring? What are teachers typically dealing with in spring? Do we have like spring fever? Are there more absences are people getting distracted by going outside? Is it state testing? Something that usually coming around.
Kate
So now it’s like, you got to cater towards those things. And oh, look, now we’ve got worksheets this that actually are better than the ones that help cater towards this. So you just have to start thinking of your person, as a person. All of a sudden, especially if you’re like, I’ve been emailing them tips, or I’ve been emailing them discounting flash sales, like nobody’s ever respond to me, and I’m getting low through click through rates, the second you start talking to them, like an actual teacher that you would talk to, in the teachers lounge, they’re gonna be like, Oh, my goodness, she gets it.
Kate
And even if they are subscribed, or follow other people, on teachers paying teachers or other teacher educator businesses, they’re going to like you their best, because you’re the one that’s talking to them, like a fellow teacher, or like a friend. And you don’t have to say things like spam or face like I do, my writing is very, like corny and approachable, because that’s me.
Kate
If you aren’t, or if teachers are gonna really vibe with saying that sort of a thing. And just make sure you’re speaking in your authentic voice, make sure that if you want to have that level of professionalism, 100%, you can have that level of professionalism, but still talk to them like you would any of your co workers, and they will feel it. And they’ll be like, yeah, so it’s very long winded thing.
Kate
But once again, what’s going on, seasonally? What are some products that you know, are going to be helping, what is just like some of those, like deeper things that they wouldn’t think about, like the struggling this state testing, things, get kids just not getting it. And honestly, sometimes, if you’re still actually teaching, maybe you had an incident in your classroom last week, or the week before or even like two days ago. And you can sort of base it off that.
Kate
Like I was dealing with this kid, we’ll call him Bob, and then maybe they’ll giggle, right? Because you got to have this sense of disclosure. And talk about how this is what was happening and here’s how I actually helped them. What have you done with a student in this situation? And then PS, if you got to do this actually struggling with X, we’ve got this in a shot that’s going to help you it’s like, Oh, my goodness. So it’s very easy to like, casually sell into your email, or not. So maybe your call to action is literally just asking people for their advice.
Kristen
Yeah, in some of my own emails, sometimes I feel like the call to action has to serve my business in some sort of way. But I get a lot of replies when the email really isn’t about anything business related. I just sent one early this year about how I wanted to start reading more. And I just asked, like, do you read what have you been reading lately, and I got so many replies back with people’s favorite books, it has nothing to do with business at all. But it builds that connection with people and it gets them to engage with my emails as opposed to just deleting them.
Kate
Anyway, I absolutely love that. And I think that it was a very interesting choice of words that it has nothing to do with business. But what it does have to do with its brand. So brand is what people think about you when you are not around. So now all of a sudden, it’s like I’m a teacher, and I know I should read more, but I haven’t, or their teacher and that’s all that they do now. Oh yeah. Kristen, did this or like, you might be surprised. And a couple of weeks people will be like, oh, did you actually read this book.
Kate
Or even you can mention in an email like, last month, I was talking about how I wanted to read more and here are some of the great suggestions that you guys had. I’ve actually read this one and this one, you know what I mean. So like you can keep that conversation going. And again, what was really nice about that reply is that now you’ve got that personal connection. Now you’ve got that brand. And again, all things being the same people are going to buy from their friends and they’re gonna think of you as a pseudo friend, right?
Kate
But it’s telling their inbox Hey, I like Kristen. So they are more likely to put you in the primary folder. Now there’s nothing wrong with being in the promotions tab. I think a lot of people hate that. But again, people go to the promotions tab when they’re looking for that dopamine hit, when they’re looking to procrastinate. So when you’ve got enjoyable emails, they’re going to start looking for your name, and they’re just gonna read your stuff, regardless of your subject lines, which is really fun.
Kristen
Yeah. And then your stuff gets moved over into that primary time. Exactly.
Kate
So even if there is, you know, salesy type language, again, like, you know, discount code and all that, you’re still more likely to show up there.
Kristen
So speaking of building those connections, I know, it’s so important for us to build that know, like, and trust factor with our audience. What suggestions do you have for building some real connections with our email subscribers?
Kate
So I think you actually role model this perfectly. And you guys were listening to the right podcast, right? It’s asking those questions,
Kristen
I learned it from you.
Kate
Right, which is, okay, we love each other here. I have best students in the world. And so again, when you’re talking about what’s going on your life, when you’re asking them for advice, when you are again, bringing up stuff, right? You know, I said they buy from friends, they buy from people that they feel like they can share a bond with, right. So it can be even something like I don’t wanna say silly, but it could even be something like, when you’re building that know, like, and trust factor, obviously, like the trust will come from, you know, proving that you get results, having actually high quality products, especially this is for people afterwards, you know, you can use stuff like reviews, or you can share a story, like if somebody like sent you like a reply back saying this really had helped, when somebody was struggling with something.
Kate
Definitely you can send those, but even again, just like proving to them that you’re their type of person. Like you’re a book reader. So I was like, oh, okay, like, I really enjoy this, like, let’s go ahead and do it. Again, showing, especially because you are dealing with other teachers. And if you feel like depending on what grade level and depending on what subject, if you feel like, you know, certifications, or certain knowledge is really going to be like, Oh, it’s like, I’m not just some schmo off the street, like not only do I have this, and I’ve been teaching for, you know, 10 years, 12 years, whatever it is, so you can, again, make sure that you’re just sort of like casually weaving it in there.
Kate
And it’s not even like, Hey, everybody, I’ve been teaching for 15 years, like, granted, you can have that in your bio, but it’s like, I just say y’all, but you don’t have to in your emails, obviously, if that doesn’t fit. It’s like, you know, y’all over the last 15 years of teaching kids how to do this. And then it’s like, oh, like she’s been teaching, for sure. It’s like, and even sometimes when, and this really goes into that know and trust, because then everyone’s gonna believe it like it’s sunshine rainbows.
Kate
So you can even go that sentence, like even somebody that has been teaching this for 15 years, I have a and then again, whatever certifications that you had, other teachers would know, like, I still misspeak about this, or like, we still have students struggling. And it’s like, Oh, my God, like me, too.
Kate
So you wouldn’t think that showing your faults is a good thing, you would think that it would erode trust, and credibility. But honestly, when you can admit like, I’ve had these mistakes, too, or I made this misstep, here’s what I’m doing to correct it. Or what advice do you guys have people will believe it more.
Kristen
At this point, buyers are probably pretty savvy about the fact that none of us are perfect. So if all you ever put out there is perfection, they’re probably wondering how much of this is real. People like for you to be real with them.
Kate
They really, really do. And even if, you know, sometimes, even when you talk about your products, if you want to bad mouth, your products, but like all I’d be the first to admit, and I know the teachers like I hate it, I don’t know, I don’t think it annoyed you too much. But I’m a first time to me like there’s typos. Right? Like, there’s typos. Why, why does Kate leave these typos? Does this make her seem unprofessional? And again, maybe if you’re a demographic with other teachers, you shouldn’t.
Kate
But for me, because my target audience is people that do not consider themselves writers I want to prove to them, it’s like, I build a million dollar business with typos. Like, it’s not gonna matter. And so it really sort of like subconsciously, like gets them taking action. Again, it’s like, you don’t want to be so far off. And it’s not all the time, but it’s like a slip up here and there. Your true people are not going to be like, oh my goodness, and then hate you forever.
Kate
So for me, that’s just sort of role modeling what we’re talking about. So it’s like, again, you might like have the sheets and be like, look like if you’re teaching this way, or you know that your students are more of this, then you know, this probably isn’t for you. However, if and then this isn’t this again, we’re going to end with a positive note on there. It’s going to work, rather than like you need these worksheets, and if you don’t, you’re a giant dummy face. Your students are going to fail and you’re going to be up till 80 million hours of the night and how dare you like No.
Kristen
Yeah, I was it actually sparked a teacher example. I was just thinking about how so many of us are working on master’s programs or doctorate programs or national board certification, like those things are hard work. And so sharing some of the frustrations and the struggles you’re having in some emails. I would do two thing, it shows you first of all, you’re continuing your education. So that builds some trust factor. But then it makes you so relatable because probably plenty of your audience is struggling with or has in the past the same kind of stuff working on their own continuing education.
Kate
And again, I’ve realized that other email marketers or marketers might not tell you this sometimes, like the body of your email doesn’t even necessarily have to do with like a call to action, like you can really talk about, like how you’re struggling this, and you can like ask people for tips. And that can be technically that the action you want them to take is like, what how did you guys survive the boards? Right? Like Like, what? How are you guys not in Starbucks just mainlining lattes? Like, I’m so tired all the time.
Kate
Okay, and then you’re gonna have like your sign off, right? And then your PS is just like, thanks for letting me vent. If you need to vent like feel free, and reply back, right? But then underneath that, you can always have a if you are struggling with this? Or if you’re going to be teaching that? Or do you have this, you can even just highlight like three resources that you have, or a little section is just like latest addition to the shops. And you’d be surprised how many people click over there and buy it? Oh, I didn’t know because we love to think like everyone knows everything that we have.
Kate
But like they don’t, or maybe like, again, they didn’t think they needed in the moment. But maybe like, oh, yeah, and again, because you’re in the industry, you know, like those, like certain times of the year that just in general, you’re gonna see an uptick in sales of your stuff, right. But again, even for those low season, like, don’t worry about this and less and less and less. Oh, okay.
Kristen
Love that. That idea. So another thing that we really struggle with, and I know this is a big one, for me, even if I have kind of made out a little plan for the month of what I’m going to talk about when you get started, and you open up your ConvertKit. There’s this text box and this blinking cursor. And so many times I and I know a lot of other people just get stuck with where to start the actual email that we are writing any tricks for moving past that writer’s block.
Kate
Well, the first thing like we had already talked about a little bit when I went on a complete rampage, about what to send your list earlier, again, having those sort of like, okay, I only need four things for the month. So it’s four things I’m gonna talk about. So you have that.
Kate
Another thing that you can always ask yourself, when you’re staring at that screen is like, again, what did I do this week? Like, you have that perfect example, right? This is gonna sound like an odd sentence. And I know that human brains hate starting things at the end, because they love order. But you could technically start with like your sign off, right? Like your signature and like a PS message. So like, you know, in your head, you want to get them to your shop. So I was like, Yes, don’t forget, we’ve got 25% off going at the shop, right? And then it’s just getting something.
Kate
I think the other thing to remember, and you guys get this because your teachers, whether you’re English or not, but like you go through first and second drafts of things. I think that people think and the reason why they get stuck in that first couple of sentences is they feel like they’re gonna have to be great. That’s just a warm up. Honestly, most of the time when you go back in and edit because that’s truly where the magic happens. Like this is the difference between great writers and like brilliant people, is that they let themselves have that crappy first draft. And I know they’re like, Okay, like, I have no time.
Kate
But here’s the thing, right? If you keep on rewriting that same first two sentences, so that it sounds brilliant, it’s gonna take you like five or six times as long, because you’re not going to have the rest of it. But if you just give yourself permission to be like, You know what, I’m just talking to other teachers like I would in the teachers lounge. It’s pretty cool. Like, let’s just go for I could chop off this top paragraph if I need to, then you’re just going to go with it. So it’s kind of like what I have this week. Where do I want people? We always ask instead of Love your list is, like, how do you want them to feel? That can be a big question sometimes for people? How do you want them to feel? What’s your goal? And what action do you want them to take?
Kate
So again, do you want people to follow you on Instagram? Do you want people to your shop? Do you want a certain thing? Do you just want people to reply? And sometimes, honestly, when you’re just like, I can’t even you can literally just be like, how’s everything going with your class this week? And then your name? And then your done.
Kristen
Yeah.
Kate
And then are you gonna have a lot of replies to deal with? Yes. But those replies are now going to give you all of these ideas for what you can write about later. Again, you can always keep a little idea bank, regardless of I know we’re Apple people so you can keep like a note on your phone because that like goes to your computer to whether you something like Air table or Trello or whatever like project management tool that you’re using. You can always just keep a running list of ideas in there.
Kate
Unless you’re emailing people and being like you guys are stupid idiot faces and you’re saying like the meanest things ever, I don’t think that one email could ruin any business, right? So you don’t need to put that much pressure. But the reason why you have pressure like you all aren’t crazy pants, the reason why you have this pressure is that every other person on earth is like you need an email list, you need an email list, like you need to grow that email list, right? So it’s so precious to you, and you don’t want to screw it up and like, well, if I send an email, and it’s bad, or even if I just send one, I go from 100 people to 95. And now I’m failing. No, because the people that stuck around actually want to hear from me.
Kate
Because those 100 people, they never hear from me, it does nothing. So give yourself a little bit of a break. See what’s going on. When you have on your blog? Do you have any ideas? If you’re doing a different form of content, if you’re following Kristen, you’re using her methods? Would you talk about their recently, if you’re active on social media at all, what you may or may not be did anything in the last couple of weeks, or really resonate with people? And you might think like, Okay, if they’re following me on Instagram, they might be on my newsletter list. Yes, they could be the algorithm like so not show people stuff. So there’s that and treat people like people, just because they read it on Instagram and might even reply to it does not mean they implement it, or did it. So you’ll actually get people that reply back. I’m pretty sure you talked about on Instagram the other day, and I was thinking that same exact thing, and I didn’t do it. Right. It’ll happen.
Kristen
Well, I know I’ve done that.
Kate
But 100% Again, treat people like people, we’re not calling them out and saying their dumb, right? Or even like bringing up the point. Like, you might have heard on Instagram, like, I’m not gonna bring that up. But we have a concept. This is repurposing as best. And I don’t do this that often. But like when you get a boatload of replies on anything, that’s something that you need to repurpose, or like, say again, in multiple places.
Kate
I have this New Year’s tradition, that is digital bankruptcy. So I talked about that in an email, we got so many replies, I made an Instagram, so many replies to the Instagram reel, we made it into a podcast, so many DMS, people probably heard it like three times. I know there are some people that did. But there’s a lot of other people that was the first time they’re hearing it. So you don’t have to worry, it doesn’t have to be something new or groundbreaking. I think that’s the other thing that’s like the writer’s block, oh it has to be new and groundbreaking. Just make it relatable. Sorry, teachers, little paragraphs, because nobody wants to have to read giant paragraphs, I’m sure we’ve got a tangent about that. Like, if it is longer than two sentences, they need to be their own paragraph. Because again, people are skimming .
Kristen
All the rules, go out the window, about like three to five minutes, minimum paragraphs with an introduction and conclusion,
Kate
All of that stuff, because again, you’re just you’re essentially writing an email to your friend. Now you very well, especially for all my lovely teachers who are teaching high school, middle school, you might when you write emails to your friends and family, you might write actual paragraphs. But remember, people are going to their inboxes, to relax to let their brain kind of cool off a little bit. And so when you have things are nice and skimmable, that are only a couple of sentences here and there, you’re using bold, those things are going to work, it’s going to draw the eye to it.
Kristen
Love that. And I really love the permission to just relax, and not treat it so seriously all the time, and to maybe every now and then send a one sentence email that just says, Hey, how you doing? What can I help you with?
Kate
Literally, how’s everything going? Or, again, if you want to add a little bit more to it again, depending on what grade level you’re at, if this is true, because I don’t I don’t teach. Okay, like, are y’all doing SEO testing to like, tell me how you’re surviving? And then just like your name.
Kristen
Yeah. Love that. So let’s talk about selling. That’s the one thing we kind of haven’t talked about yet. I know a lot of teacher sellers say that they have a pretty decent sized list, but no one’s buying from them, and they don’t know what they’re doing wrong. So when it comes to getting those subscribers to convert over into buying our resources, is their trick they’re missing? What can they do?
Kate
Okay, so the first thing that I would say is, how often are you mentioning stuff now, you might only send an email anytime you have a new resource. If that is the case, then I think you need to start emailing even when you do not have a new resource. So that way, again, when people see your name, or an interesting subject line, they’re gonna click over and they’re going to look at it, if they know that it’s just oh, she’s just gonna say a resource, they’re not gonna click over unless maybe they know they need something, right?
Kate
So we want to make sure we’re doing that. We also want to make sure that, again, we’re relating the product back to how is it and I know it’s because I like a big thing was like, how is it going to make their life easier or better? Another reason I get why do people buy easier, better, technically status, right? So you can play that lever if you wanted to, like, oh, like students implemented this, and this is the results that we got from our classroom. Right? And again, you would admit to like, we implemented this in our classroom. We normally get like a 65 on this but we actually ended up with an average of 75. Can I guarantee that for all of your students? No. But like, with with like that, like, it’s pretty good. Any advantage that we can give to our students we’re gonna give them,
Kristen
Well even those non tangibles, like you’re gonna be the fun teacher now. They’re gonna love your class.
Kate
Exactly right. And so it’s talking about like, you could literally have an email about how to make something more engaging, right? Especially if you’re a boring teacher, or if you’re not creative. And then it’s like, again, is it PS because now, we’re giving them like some actual tips, if you want, you’re not too many, like 1-3 max. Because again, it’s a dopamine hit that they’re looking for, they’re not looking for a whole blog article, that’s different frame of brain that they’re going into.
Kate
And as I add, we have this going on, right, or like we talked about showing the actual credibility, another thing that’s going to get more people clicking over something as simple as including a mock up, or a screenshot or an image of your resource, because people will click on it. So make sure that when you include that image, that it actually links out to where you want it to go. Because I know like a lot of people will just leave the image as is. But you’re going to notice if you’re going in and looking at your analytics images will be clicked.
Kristen
We’re just trained to click on the image for everything, everywhere.
Kate
right? We want 100%. And again, I know that people like to kind of rag on big retailers, but like there’s a reason why I like your Targets and I know Dunkin Donuts is really big where I’m at in New England, there’s a reason why all those emails are very graphic based, because they know those things work. Now, we’re not going to necessarily make ours graphic base, but we are going to include things because again, people might be wondering, like, does this actually look good?
Kate
Especially because like, you know, you’re handing it to students. And like, let’s be real, regardless of what age they are, they’re gonna critique stuff like this looks too babyish. Or, this looks ugly, or that looks good, right? Like, we all know, that they like to secretly stretch. Right? So by actually having those visuals that can really help, we talk a lot about in the bigger course, we talk about, like casual selling, right.
Kate
So it’s like, you know, the other day, when we were chatting about whatever the topic is, just like you would in a blog post link to say, a different article, when you hit like a keyword that makes sense, you can link to products that it would just make sense for that keyword. So technically you would not even mention that product. Right? It’s just like a nice sort of casual link out. It’s like what we talked about, it’s having those like resources at the bottom, just like three now, not like the whole shop, because that can be overwhelming. Technically, it can be the same three.
Kate
And that’s another thing to look at, too. We did talk about seasonal selling, but like, there might be something that you know, just sells like gangbusters. So you gotta go look at your numbers. That can be one of those resources that you always sort of keep at the bottom, or you know, that if somebody buys this thing, they just end up buying, like everything. And you’ll find that the more that you’re in business, and then we’re like, you’re like, I don’t know why, but like, people love this. And then they go and buy that and they buy that and then buy that. That’s because you’re really good at what you make, right? So have it on there every once in a while. If you feel like running a sale, by all means you can again, I don’t exactly know how the platform works. But I’m pretty sure that you can control your pricing or when you do it.
Kristen
There’s four big sales a year. So those were doing some promo emails for of course, but the rest of the year, I think it’s more Yeah, well, smaller sales, and we can throw sales in our own store.
Kate
Yeah, so like, you can do those on occasion. But you don’t always have to, again, I’m talking about levers, because it’s true. You don’t always have to rely on lever as much as your think like, oh, like you should? No, no, you can just just be in there. And again, the more that you kind of give yourself permission to to be a little creative, which I know at the end of the long, hard day, you’re like, Oh God, I don’t want more creativity. But brain hurts from working, you can turn that my brain Earth hurts from working, a lack of creativity into an email, and then Bingo Bango, what’s the solution for lack of creativity? I already did this for you.
Kate
And then I said, Oh, that’s pretty exciting. So again, it’s like one of my favorite sentences to turn anything, especially if you’re like, Kate, like I’m really good at sending content, and like helpful stuff. And like all value value value, but like when it comes to selling, I just clam up. Here’s your miracle sentence everyone. I don’t want to say like I don’t need my library list like you can buy love your list if there is a link for it. But which got me thinking about or which is why, so you’re giving them all of the tips that like you were going to the one or the two or you’re talking about the situation that you have on hand. And then this is the turn of phrase that you’re going to use which is why in a blank blank product, we have blank blank blank blank so that way and then again, we’re harping back to what we talked about before.
Kate
So you know that we’re your students are engaged in it’s fine. And then again, if it happens once and you’re actually gonna get it for like $5 off which is pretty cool. Or and it’s only seven bucks, and I’m gonna wish you but for me it was worth it right. Or which got me thinking about and it all of a sudden, she’s like, Oh, well, like, that’s a lot easier, because we already sort of solve their problem. And now we’re sort of solving it more.
Kate
This phrase is really bro-y, but its the truth. Like when people pay like they pay attention, right? And again, when you get people results from your free stuff, eventually they’re gonna think, Oh, my goodness, what is their paid stuff? Now you’re gonna have people on your list that forever and ever are never going to buy from you. Yeah, sure. But you never know, they could be telling other people about your stuff. So it could be like that second level fandom, if you will. Or maybe they’re not just big spenders, but like, they enjoy you. And then one of their friends is talking about something, they’re gonna like, Oh, my God, like, you need to get her stuff and stuff. Like it’s so helpful, even if they’ve never bought before.
Kate
So it’s like, okay, or like, I’m not going to, I always like to think of the little people, if that makes sense. Like, I’m not going to not tell my list about this product that I know, is going to save them some time and some energy and get student results. Because like, maybe one person is going to be like, Oh, how dare she sell. But like, if that can make like five other teachers lives easier. Like, I’m not going to be a jerk and not tell them about it. Like they need to know. Oh, so and when you start thinking, like, alright, I’ll look to negative people, and people aren’t gonna buy the freebie seekers, like, that’s fine. But like the people that I’m going to help, I’m not going to deprive them that help, because I’m scared of what all those other people are gonna think.
Kristen
Well, I think that really comes down to buying into what we sell, and how it helps people. Not just that I’m creating these products, so I can sell some stuff and make some money to support my family. But the results that we’re getting for those teachers who are buying things from us really digging into some of that, and embracing that, yeah, I’m here helping people and they need this thing that I’m offering.
Kate
Yeah, right. And it’s like, and you can even mention this, again, we talked about like talking about downfall. Look, I know you can do it yourself. We both know you’re smart and capable, you can literally use that sentence. Like I just want to make her a little bit easier. You’re allowed to have a head start. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Kristen
You’re allowed to have your Saturday and Sunday afternoons free from coming up with worksheets.
Kate
Right? We’re literally physically done.
Kristen
Love it. Love it. Can we do a couple of kind of rapid fire? Just quick answer questions.
Kate
I will try. But y’all can tell I’m very wordy, but I will try.
Kristen
We’ll try. Okay, first, how often? Do you think we should be emailing our list in an ideal world?
Kate
Once a week? If not every other week? So at least twice a month?
Kristen
See, that was so fast, you did great. Second, what about cold subscribers? How often should we clean those out?
Kate
I’d say once or twice a year, it was a little bit harder for email service providers to be able to track that with all the great like privacy stuff, which is nice. So I wouldn’t just delete people, I would make sure if they’re cold, we’re sending a couple of emails directly towards them and kind of like letting them know what’s going to happen. So that way they can like choose. I like to blame technology.
Kate
But again, I was like to talk to people like people, you know, I’d explain to them like, it’s like, I don’t want to waste your time. If you don’t need this. Like the last thing you need is to have like me jamming up your inbox with stuff. So like, if you’re cool. You want to stick around, like click here. If not, don’t worry, we can meet again some other time.
Kristen
And I’ve heard a couple of people talk about using people who never click as a cold subscriber instead of just people who don’t open because of all the privacy things. But I don’t know. What are your thoughts are
Kate
My thoughts I know it’s gonna sound like oh, just rely on technology. If ConvertKit tells me they’re cold, that’s fine. This is where it comes from. email service providers do have a very hard time registering when something is open. Because things like Samsung’s always did this. But iPhone started doing it and Gmail like you know how you have to like hit to load images, the way that all email service writers can tell if somebody opened it is if somebody allows images, because there’s an invisible image that goes back and it pings your email service provider. And this is every email service provider, not just a ConvertKit or MailChimp or you’re not going to escape this at all.
Kate
So what might end up happening is people could very well be opening your emails and you’ll get replies back to this. But because of privacy settings, it’s not registering. And so that’s why again, before you just mass delete everybody give them an opportunity to be like look, it’s like I love technology as much as an expert. So if you’re actually reading and enjoying these ideas, you just reply back with like the letter K so that way we know what’s okay right? Or like hit this link because reply backs your email service provider can always track, link clicks they can always track but as the opens that they have a hard time.
Kristen
So maybe a good strategy is to really focus on throughout the year asking for replies and trying to get more link clicks so that people are not registering as cold when they really are opening our emails,
Kristen
Okay, last one, and this is definitely a teacher seller specific one generally, the advice about email list building is to create one main opt in and it’s magical and amazing. But wait tend to have alot, so how many opt ins is too many?
Kate
Enough that you can’t manage, if that makes sense. So I would make sure that the free gifts that you’re giving away freebies lead magnets, that there is at least a solid welcome series behind it. And now technically, all of your freebies could put everybody in the same welcome series. So like with ConvertKit, they have the incentive email, which will deliver your freebie automatically. So like everyone can get like that incentive email. And then it’s like, all right, General welcome series. And what’s great about ConvertKit and other email service providers, they should be smart enough to do this is like if Sally decided to go ham on your store, and like get all of your freebies, right, she’s just like, so excited, it’s only going to know that welcome series once. Even if she decided one day to get 10 of your freebies, she’s gonna get those 10 incentive emails, but she’s not going to get 10 copies of email number two. So again, as long as you’ve got a plan behind it, I think that it is quite all right. No one’s gonna be mad, just make sure that they go somewhere, even if they all go to the same spot.
Kristen
That’s a really good advice. I know, I have a lot of email opt ins, a lot of freebies out there floating around from before, that don’t really go anywhere after the incentive email other than they get dumped onto my main list. So definitely something that I need to go back and check up on a little bit.
Kate
Just a general one. And it doesn’t have to be a specially if you’re emailing on the regular, like, it doesn’t have to be this big, long drawn out welcome series, it could literally just be like two emails, right? With like, you know, your best tips for like, say you’re dealing with, like, you know, printables, or just, you know, dealing with a teacher, or if you’re dealing with like a certain grade level, you know, like the general things that are just like fan favorites, right? Talk about that one, right. And then maybe in the third one you’re going to talk about like other things in the store, or maybe you’re going to depending on how it worked, maybe we’re going to give like a discount code or something you don’t have to. If that technology is there, because then we could use it all the time. Like just like a nice casual like three again, because we want to have that know, like and trust and like that second email. It’s like how can we make their lives even easier? Right? Again, just general teacher and that third one again, that more relationship building, and then it’s like, and every week, we’re gonna get stuff that is top of mind for teachers right now.
Kristen
Yeah, love it. I definitely have some things to take back and work on with my own email. But I’m sure everybody else does, too. Thank you so much for doing this. Can you share before we hop off here where everyone can find you?
Kate
Sure. So you can head on over to Katedoster.com/2years, and that will give you two years worth of email ideas. So what it does is it simply like sentence starters, some of them are based on like random holidays, which I know regardless of what grade you’re teaching is kind of fun to always deal with. Again, some of those like relationships starters, we have what we call like money starters in there. So I literally put out like second week of January send this and some people religiously follow it other people. I’m gonna go see what’s in May when it’s you know, June, which is fine. Like, I just want to give you that like, again, when you can talk about anything that you draw this blank. So you guys can hang out there. I’m really enjoying Instagram lately, I don’t have a huge following. But I’m over there a lot because I’m just having fun there. And that is @Kate_doster
Kristen
And we’ll put clickable links in the show notes to support.
Kate
Oh, on my podcast, I forgot to say my podcast, we have to Do The Brave thing Podcast where again, we focus on actual tangible things. But we also focus a lot on mindset as well. I do not think that you can have one without the other. And I think that’s where there’s a big disconnect. There are some people that are like, Oh, dream it like you can manifest it. Yes, because you need to believe that it can happen. But you actually need to do the stuff to make it happen. Because I can tell you till you’re blue in the face, like use contractions, you’ll sound like a person, but I can’t get you to hit Send because you’re so afraid of people are coming back and being butt faces it’s not going to work.
Kate
So we talk a lot about both of those things. And again, especially for those accidental entrepreneurs, right, like we’re talking more about, like taking that leadership role about seeing yourself especially like I never considered myself a salesman. I was not the kid that was selling candy out of my backpack and like was winning all the cool prizes that fundraisers like when that fundraiser thing came out. I threw that thing right in the trash.
Kristen
I did not want to go ask people to buy any candy bars for me, or magazine.
Kate
No, like that was not who I was at all I had a very adverse reaction to all of that sort of stuff.
Kristen
I’m still that person as a parent. They send the things home and I’m like, can I just write a check?
Kate
That’s exactly what I did like two days ago. My kids like oh, like they said like we could go around like businesses and stuff. My business will just do it, it’s fine.So again, I don’t want to say like writing never came natural to me like I have dyslexia right. And like selling was never come naturally. But it’s like if I can take these skills and really just turning it into all I’m doing is just talking to people y’all can tell like I’m a talker, so like I can talk to people that I got down. That’s really all. So just talk to people. We’re like, oh, yeah, that’s gonna help you too! And then we’re going over there.
Kristen
Thank you again so much for being here. This has been super fun. And I am definitely looking forward to putting some of your tips into practice.
Kate
Yay, thank you so much.
Kristen
Today’s action step is for those of you who might have a list, but you haven’t been emailing them recently. And it’s really simple. Just send an email, like Kate shared, it does not have to be perfect. So take the pressure off of yourself. And just write a note as if you were checking up on a teacher friend, maybe share a product or a blog post. But don’t worry as much about that as you do just connecting with those subscribers who haven’t heard from you in a while.
Kristen
Keep experimenting and adjusting your email strategy until you find the right fit for your audience. And don’t give up if you don’t see results right away because it really can take some time to find the perfect formula for success for your people. Be sure to share this episode with a TPT seller friend who needs it and go follow Kate on Instagram for all the tips on email marketing and copywriting. Thank you so much for listening. Talk to you soon.
Kristen
I hope you enjoyed today’s episode. If you did, please share it with another teacher seller who would also find it helpful. For more resources on Growing Your TPT business. Head to Kristendoyle.co/TPT. Talk to you soon.
