Kristen Doyle 0:00
Are you an introvert feeling like if you want to succeed in your business, you’ll have to force yourself to be loud and get out there more? Or maybe you’re somewhere in the middle, like me, an ambivert, but you’re still struggling with showing up in ways that feel authentic to who you are. In today’s episode, I am sitting down with my friend Nicole Kepic to talk about how running a business is a little different as an introvert.
Kristen Doyle 0:30
Nicole’s been on the show before, teaching us all about copywriting, but today I get to introduce her as the author of her very first book, Don’t Ask me to be Loud, the Introverted Girls Guide to Online Business. Nicole is a sales page copywriter with 20 years of experience. She wrote for some major companies whose names you would definitely recognize before she decided to become an entrepreneur, and now she helps female business owners write copy that connects and converts without feeling pushy or inauthentic.
Kristen Doyle 1:06
We talk all about how to leverage your natural strengths as an introvert, marketing strategies that don’t drain your energy, and how to sell your products in a way that really feels genuine to you. And Nicole also shared a little bit of her journey of writing this book and how she’s navigating her own book launch as an introvert. Let’s get to it.
Kristen Doyle 1:32
Are you a digital product or course creator, selling on platforms like teachers pay teachers, Etsy or your own website? Ready to grow your business, but not into the kind of constant hustle that leads straight to burnout? Then you’re in the right place.
Kristen Doyle 1:47
Welcome to The Savvy Seller. I’m Kristen Doyle, and I’m here to give you no fluff, tools and strategies that move the needle for your business without burning you out in the process. Things like SEO, no stress marketing, email list building, automation, and so much more. Let’s get started y’all.
Kristen Doyle 2:11
Today’s episode is super fun for me, because I have had the privilege of standing on the sidelines and watching from when this book was just kind of an idea all the way through launching it now. Nicole, welcome, welcome. I’m so excited to have this conversation with you today
Nicole Kepic 2:32
Thank you, Kristen. Thank you for having me back. I feel like I could really get used to this repeat guest status.
Kristen Doyle 2:39
It’s fun, isn’t it?
Nicole Kepic 2:40
It is.
Kristen Doyle 2:41
It makes the the second and the third interviews feel so much, I don’t know, easier.
Nicole Kepic 2:46
Absolutely.
Kristen Doyle 2:48
So I remember when you first started talking about writing a book and you were trying to figure out what you wanted to write about. What kind of made you settle on this specific topic?
Nicole Kepic 3:02
Oh, wow, yeah, it was definitely an evolution. It was a seed of an idea before that grew into something different and something bigger. So, yeah, kind of a three part stage. So in the beginning, the first part, I thought, Okay, I’m gonna write a book about copywriting. It just makes sense. I’m a copywriter. It’s what I do, and it would fit so perfectly into my business funnel.
Nicole Kepic 3:22
But then the more I thought about that, the thought of writing 300 pages just on copywriting was like, oh, a bit intense, and also I thought might be a bit boring. So for now, I scratched that idea. And then the next stage was thinking I wanted it to be a bit more holistic, a bit more encompassing of all the things that as business owners, we need to learn and do and master on the daily.
Nicole Kepic 3:47
So yes, copywriting is one of the things it’s so important to have your you know, the bright messaging for your audience, but I wanted it to be more about the marketing, the branding, the visibility, the pricing and selling and the mindset stuff that goes along with all that.
Nicole Kepic 4:03
So basically, like I said, more encompassing, more holistic of the business experience. And then finally, I was like, Okay, I’ve got this idea for a business book, a well rounded business book, but what’s my unique angle? What’s my What’s the thing that’s going to make it different from everything else? And then it just hit me, why not write through the lens of an introvert? Since, hello, I’m an introvert. I am certainly not this loud, bold extrovert.
Nicole Kepic 4:26
And I thought, why not write through the lens of an introvert for introverts? Because certainly, I mean, everyone has challenges when it comes to running a business, but there’s certain challenges that are, let’s say, more, I don’t know more difficult, just different as an introvert, running an online business in this busy, loud space.
Kristen Doyle 4:46
Yeah, it is, for sure. And I know you know this because we’ve talked about it before, but for everyone else listening, I am one of those people, whenever I take the introvert, extrovert quizzes, I always score right around 50/50, and it’s always just skewed a little bit more to the introvert side than it is to the extrovert side. But I am always like 48/52 47/53 just right there in the middle, which I guess makes me an ambivert, but you’re pretty solid introvert, right?
Nicole Kepic 5:19
I think so. And you know what I mean? I will say, I struggle to call myself an introvert a while, because when most people talk about introversion, it’s almost like there’s this negative connotation to it, like, Oh, you’re an introvert. You don’t like people, or you’re not good with people, or you’re not social. And I’m like, what? Wait. I am social. I love people. I love
Kristen Doyle 5:38
like, you’re fun.
Nicole Kepic 5:41
Thank you. Thank you. I wouldn’t call myself fun, but thank you for calling me fun. Yeah, so I just felt like, why would I want to call myself an introvert if that’s what everybody is attaching to the word introvert. But finally, I let those, you know, those myths go and then just kind of embraced my introversion, or at least. You know, it’s a journey of still embracing it. But yeah, it’s like, I want to defend the honor of introverts and say you can still love people, you can still go to social events and enjoy them, be around lots of people, and still be an introvert.
Kristen Doyle 6:12
Yeah and I think it’s so good to recognize and just embrace that this is who we are, this is how we’re made, and it’s so much more as as I have been learning over the years, learning more about introversion and extroversion. It’s so much more about your energy than what you like or personality traits or anything.
Kristen Doyle 6:33
And the more I’ve learned that, the more I can see, especially as somebody who falls kind of in the middle, I can see myself getting to that point of like, of low energy from all the social stuff and needing to be by myself for a little bit and have some quiet time. And it just it makes so many things easier when you recognize it and you understand it.
Speaker 1 6:55
Yeah, absolutely, you give yourself that space to just replenish your energy and rejuvenate. I was talking to somebody the other day, and I kind of liked how they phrased it. They said they don’t really like saying there are activities that are introvert activities and activities that are extrovert activities, they’re the same activities, but we just might approach them differently.
Nicole Kepic 7:13
So if I’m speaking or, you know, doing a presentation or going to an event, I’m happy to do that, but I might just prepare for it differently or afterwards. Yes, I might need, like, a two hour nap. So yeah, it’s just certain activities are not closed off to introverts or extroverts. You just approach them differently and then recoup differently.
Kristen Doyle 7:33
It’s one of the big reasons when I go to, like, conferences and things, I will usually either book a room alone, or if I have a roommate, it’s somebody I have known for a long time who gets me and understands if I just need to lay in bed and read a book and not speak for a few hours.
Speaker 1 7:50
That is so true. I mean, we’ve done a few masterminds together, and I think it was only the last one that I had a room by myself, and I thought, Ah, so this is what it’s about. This is why Kristen has been doing it because, yeah, you’re peopling all weekend for about four days, and then it’s just nice to have your own space when you know all the peopleing is done.
Kristen Doyle 8:07
Yeah, it’s just good to have that space. The other thing I have learned that I’ve done the last two times I’ve gone out of town is, instead of the event ending and I hop on a plane and I’m immediately back home with my family, the last two times because of flights. I really didn’t do it on purpose, but because of what flights were available, I have spent a night in a hotel and gotten up and left early the next morning to come home, and that really just gave me the time to decompress, because I was the first one anyway. I was by myself. This last one, I was with friends. We had fun. There was no decompressing.
Kristen Doyle 8:45
But I could tell between the two how helpful it was for me to have that like, I don’t know, six or seven hours of awake time at the hotel, just quiet, alone, decompressing a little bit, and then that flight home, and I was ready to hit the ground running with my family once I got home, it was really nice.
Nicole Kepic 9:05
That does sound blissful, and it’s funny I think of I don’t have the same setup, but my family knows my husband and son know if I’m traveling and I come home, say I arrive home around 4:30/5:00, there’s not going to be the question, Mom, what’s for dinner. Like, please have dinner made. I am not just jumping back into family life right away, like, please, at least have dinner made.
Kristen Doyle 9:27
I need a little time. Oh, and you’re at a different phase too, with your son being a lot older than my kids are right now, I’m still in the like, they come and attack me. Well, the little one does. The middle schooler, not so much. He’s too cool for that. Last time I came home, he told me he didn’t miss me so that was fun.
Speaker 2 9:45
Ouch. Dagger to the heart. Thanks.
Kristen Doyle 9:49
He didn’t mean it.
Kristen Doyle 9:50
It’s just, it turns out we have different definitions of the word ‘miss’. What he means is he wasn’t like sad all weekend.
Nicole Kepic 9:57
Okay, well, that’s okay.
Kristen Doyle 9:58
Oh, okay. Well, you’re a well adjusted kid who can handle me being away. That’s good. That’s a win for me. Well, so we you and I’ve talked before about how being introverted can actually be good for us as business owners, and can really help us to connect with our audiences and some other things. Can you share a little bit about some of the ways you found introversion to almost be like a superpower in your business.
Speaker 1 10:26
Yeah, I love that you say it that way, that you phrased it that way, because so often we think it’s a hindrance. We think I’m an introvert, so I can’t be good at sales, or I’m an introvert. I can’t ever do video. And I think sometimes we almost use it as an excuse, right? So superpower, I love that.
Nicole Kepic 10:42
I personally think, like this is a general sweep, you know, a sweeping generalization, but I think introverts are really good listeners and very empathetic, which, of course, comes in really handy when we’re understanding and listening to our audiences. So we’re almost letting them be the star of the show, like we’re putting ourselves in the back seat, saying, hey, it’s all about you. We’re listening to their needs and their wants, their desires, and then in turn, we’re creating products and solutions or services that meet those needs better. So that listening is so important.
Nicole Kepic 11:13
I also think that, I mean, this is sounds weird to say, but I also think introverts can be really great leaders, but maybe not. You know, I’m thinking not in the traditional sense. When I think of leader, I think of back when I was in corporate, I was a senior copywriter most of my career, but there are a couple times where I got promoted to marketing manager.
Nicole Kepic 11:32
And it was because my bosses wanted to promote me and move me up the ladder. But I did not enjoy it, because all of a sudden, not only was I not writing, which I love to do, but I was managing a team of people and having to have uncomfortable conversations, like, Oh, you came in late today. You need to stop doing that.
Nicole Kepic 11:50
And it’s like I just wanted to be their best friends in business, and so it was just not the kind of leader I wanted to be. But I think there’s also a way of looking at like, thought leadership, so introverts can make really great leaders in the thought leadership sense. So sharing your expertise, making an impact, and, you know, leading in that sense.
Kristen Doyle 12:11
Yeah, you know, when I was reading that story in your book, it occurred to me that I really hate that part of managing a team. It’s something I have always struggled with. You’ve gotten some of my Voxer messages where I didn’t know how to handle basically a confrontation that I needed to have with somebody on my team, and not even that it was a difficult or a big confrontation. But having to correct people never feels good to me.
Kristen Doyle 12:42
I can do it as a mom all day long, and my husband would probably die. He’d say I do it as a wife too. But when it comes to other people, that’s not easy for me, and I never really tied that into maybe it being a little bit of an introvert thing.
Speaker 1 12:57
Yeah, it’s so uncomfortable. I just yeah, I didn’t like it, because here I was the person going to lunch with these people, and then all of a sudden I get promoted. It’s like, oh, you’re their boss. It just changed the dynamic. And yeah, it just was not, not the role I wanted.
Kristen Doyle 13:10
For sure. But I love that you talked about being a leader who can lead with that quiet confidence. It doesn’t always have to be big and loud and in your face.
Speaker 1 13:20
No. And I think if you’re serving clients or customers, which most of us are, that introversion, that calmness, that peacefulness, I guess, can put your clients at peace too and and give them confidence that they’ve made the right investment, the right decision to work with you, so they feel good with their investment as well.
Kristen Doyle 13:37
Yeah, you know, one of the things actually, that I have always been told by people is that I tend to be that person when something feels chaotic in our entrepreneur circles, I tend to be that voice of calm and reason, and again, I just never really put two and two together.
Nicole Kepic 13:54
I can attest to that, because at least in our Voxer chain, you’re the person who’s like, it’s fine, it’s gonna be fine. That’s the light I think of. So yes, you are the calm choice of reason in our boxer chain.
Kristen Doyle 14:06
Well thank you. So I know one of the things that at least I struggle with, and I know probably a lot of listeners do too as introverts, is putting them, putting yourself out there to market your products. And maybe our listeners who aren’t introverts struggle with the same thing. What kind of experience have you had with doing the marketing things, building visibility for your business as an introvert specifically?
Nicole Kepic 14:32
I mean, I struggled at first, in the sense that when, again, when I was in corporate, the last place I worked at, just for context, I was at a creative agency. So it was me and a bunch of designers account managers. I was the only copywriter on staff. So any project that came in from any of our clients, our international clients, I got to write the copy. I didn’t have to fight for attention. I didn’t have to fight for projects. Now that I think of it, it was a pretty sweet gig.
Kristen Doyle 14:57
I was gonna say, it sounds pretty great!
Nicole Kepic 14:59
It does, it was great. When I, you know, quit corporate, went for my own business online, then it’s like, Oh, wow. I am not the only, like, I knew this, of course, but you really see that there are so many people in your space. So I think I worried, how am I going to stand out? How am I going to stand out when there’s so many big, bold personalities out there, and how is that going to affect my marketing? Am I going to have to do marketing activities that just are not me? Am I going to have to pretend to be somebody I’m not?
Kristen Doyle 15:29
Am I going to have to dance on TikTok? Please don’t make me dance on TikTok.
Speaker 1 15:33
I’m not even on TikTok. Let’s be real. My teenage son would be mortified.
Kristen Doyle 15:39
I’m only on BookTok. I just watch.
Nicole Kepic 15:44
Yeah, so I just for marketing to answer your question. I just really leaned into what feels authentic, like I’m not going to pretend to be somebody I’m not. And then when I’m choosing marketing activities, it sounds so simple, but I really just lean into what’s easy for me and what’s enjoyable. And it doesn’t mean I won’t try hard things. You know?
Nicole Kepic 16:02
I will, of course, get out of my comfort zone and try different things, because there’s so much pride and accomplishment that comes with that when you when you master something or do something that you thought you couldn’t do or were afraid to do. But overall, what comes easy to me and what do I enjoy doing? Because if you don’t enjoy doing a certain activity like it’s just gonna it’s just gonna make you feel miserable. And there’s so many activities to choose, so why choose ones that don’t let you up inside?
Kristen Doyle 16:30
Right now you’re right in the middle of launch mode as we’re recording your official book launch day was yesterday. Congratulations. So you’re in the middle of launch mode, which is pretty intense for everybody, much less for introverts. I know for me, when I am in launch mode, I have that energy for a while, and sometimes I feel like I hit a wall and I can’t keep going.
Kristen Doyle 16:56
It’s just an intense season with tons of marketing, which, you know, like we said, that can feel really hard for introverts. So what are some of those marketing strategies you have found that feel good for you, some that as an introvert, they don’t drain your energy and make you feel like you’ve hit that wall and need to stop.
Nicole Kepic 17:18
Yeah. I mean, for me, I really rely on email. That’s a big one for me, just because, like, it’s very introvert friendly when you think of it, because you’re just sitting at your computer, you’re writing an email one to one. I mean, obviously the email is going to go to more than one person, but you’re writing it as if you’re just talking to one friend, so and you’re not having to do video and show up, you know, 24/7 live.
Nicole Kepic 17:39
So email is a big one for me. And I’ve really built a strong community over email. I find that when I launched something new, my email subscribers are the first people to be like, Hey, this is awesome. I’m on board. I also do social media like, I know some people just hate social media. I get frustrated with it sometimes, but I I do love Instagram in the sense that I’ve met so many amazing friends, collaborators, just business friends on Instagram, and even clients too.
Nicole Kepic 18:08
So I just approach it like I’m gonna do Instagram, but do it in a way that works for me. So you’re not gonna see me on lives, pretty much, ever. I don’t think. I think I’ve done one, I think I’ve done one live.
Kristen Doyle 18:20
Same. I think I’ve done one.
Nicole Kepic 18:23
I will do some video over stories every once in a while, like I’m not afraid to do that, but it’s not happening all the time. I’ve kind of baby toed into reels. But basically, I’m just choosing to do it on my own terms. I’m not following a certain schedule or trend. I’m just doing it in a way that suits me and my energy.
Kristen Doyle 18:42
I want to go back to what you said about email for a second, because I think you shared such a great tip, and you just breezed right over it like it was nothing. You said that when you write emails, you sit down and you’re writing it like you’re talking to just one person. And I think that is such an important tip that so many people forget about because the goal of our email is, like you said, to build relationships and community with those people that are on your list.
Kristen Doyle 19:12
And if you’re always just writing it like it’s a newsletter, blast to whoever feels like reading today, you’re not going to do that in the same way. And I know when I started writing more personal emails, and I guess I am kind of writing them to one person, that really helped a) make the emails a lot easier to write, because I feel like I’m just talking to a friend, I’m just talking to somebody, and B) it has really helped me build some connections with my audience too, because that’s such a great strategy.
Kristen Doyle 19:42
And I know a lot of my audience struggles with what to write and how to write their emails. So I’m just going to tell everyone get on Nicole’s email list and watch how she writes emails, because they are amazing. And I do always feel like you’re talking straight to me.
Speaker 1 19:57
Thank you. Yeah, I guess I did just breeze through that, but yeah, it certainly impacts the language you’re using when you’re thinking of writing to just one person. Because if you’re picturing sitting at a you know, over coffee with a friend, the way the words you you choose or say to that friend are going to be different than if you know 10 people in a boardroom are sitting across from you. So it definitely impacts your word choice.
Kristen Doyle 20:20
Yeah for sure. You know, as popular as email marketing has gotten, as full as our inboxes have gotten. I know we are all getting seven emails a day from Old Navy or Bed Bath and Beyond or whoever, but to be that person who writes like you were talking specifically to someone so that they feel like they have a connection with you, and they start to reply back. And you build those, those connections with people, that really is how you stand out in a very crowded inbox.
Speaker 1 20:49
Yeah, absolutely. So they will start to see your name in their inbox and think, okay, no matter what they’re talking about, I want to open this email because I’m like this person, you know, the whole know, like and trust factor. They already have such good rapport with you that they want to open your emails, even if their inbox is super cluttered.
Kristen Doyle 21:06
And even if you think you already know what the email is about. Yeah, I opened your book launch email yesterday, even though I knew I know the name, I have the book right here.
Speaker 2 21:16
There she is.
Kristen Doyle 21:17
Right here, sitting by my desk, and it’s place of honor, where I brought it just for this episode, because it has been sitting by my couch because I don’t read in my office.
Unknown Speaker 21:27
Yes, you have to get comfortable when you’re reading
Kristen Doyle 21:29
Right. But I did bring it in here to record, just in case I needed it or something. So but, yeah, I saw your launch email come through yesterday, and I knew you were, you were announcing that the book was available, and I’ve already bought mine, so I didn’t need that email, but I wanted to see what you said about it. I was excited, because I like to read your emails. And it just goes to show, when you build that relationship with people, they’ll open your emails, even if they don’t. I mean, I knew from the subject that email wasn’t really for me today, because I already have the book, right? But I still wanted to read it.
Nicole Kepic 22:03
You wanted to share in the joy and excitement of my launch, my lazy launch, my easy, lazy launch.
Kristen Doyle 22:10
I love it. I love the lazy launch. And I think you know, as an introvert, maybe that’s one of your launch strategies, is to do a quieter launch. It’s not a lazy launch. It’s just a quieter launch. It is a less in your face launch, yeah.
Nicole Kepic 22:25
I mean, I really just, for the launch. I really just focused on email. I had a wait list of an email wait list of people who have been following along since last year. So about six or eight months ago, they’ve been following me behind the scenes. So I had those people, then they had, then I had my greater email list, and then, of course, social media. But it’s funny, yesterday the day of my launch, so went live with my videos and reels, and then it was like I was just replying to comments all day, because so many people, I honestly didn’t expect it, so many people were sharing and commenting and just so excited. And at the end of the day, I said to my husband, I didn’t do much today, except for reply to social media comments, but I felt exhausted. I don’t know why. Maybe it was just the anticipation, too, of the book finally coming out.
Kristen Doyle 23:13
I’m sure. I mean that launch day for whatever you’re launching, for me is always really exhausting, too. I think a lot of it is just like emotional, it’s it’s anticipation and hoping it goes well.
Nicole Kepic 23:27
Wll the people like it? Yes, all the, all the thoughts running through your head.
Kristen Doyle 23:31
So I know you’ve been doing email, one of your other strategies is what we’re doing right now, right? You’ve been going on a little bit of a podcast tour, lots of podcast recordings. What about podcast works for you as an introvert?
Nicole Kepic 23:44
I love podcast guesting because I love the one to one conversations again, the one to one I also like that there’s not a ton of prep, like, I’ll just be honest, I like that part about it, because, especially if you’re talking about something you’re comfortable with, there’s not a ton of prep.
Nicole Kepic 23:59
Although, of course, I will dive into the host and their world and their business. Of course, I don’t want to come unprepared, but I like that it’s pretty much just show up as you are have a genuine, authentic conversation, versus it being all scripted. And then, yeah, then it’s done.
Nicole Kepic 24:16
And then I like the evergreen aspect of it, too. So once this podcast is out in the world. Who knows? Somebody might listen to it three months down the line, six months down the line, so I’m speaking of benefits in the sense that if people are listening, it’s helpful for them too, to go on podcast too, just to share their message and share their business.
Kristen Doyle 24:34
Yeah, it is. I absolutely love podcasting. I know I’ve not made that a secret. I had this podcast…how long have I had this podcast now? Two and a half years. It’s been a long time. We’re on Episode 130 something right now. 136 maybe. So it has been a long time, and for me, as an introvert, it really just feels easy to jot down an outline so I don’t go totally off track, because I will if I don’t, I have an outline of questions for this that we have strayed from a lot, but that’s fine, but I always like to just jot down an outline to keep me on track, and then it can just be a conversation.
Kristen Doyle 25:17
Or just me talking to the camera, because I do record video and audio, talking to the camera and imagining there’s a person that I’m talking to on the other side. And it just feels so like there’s so much less pressure than things like live videos, and you know some of those other ways to create content and to get out there and serve your audience and grow your audience. So I love podcasting, and I think podcast guesting is such a great way for people in our audience, maybe who are wanting to grow their audience, reach out to other people. It’s such a great way to do that in a way that, like you said, feels low pressure.
Nicole Kepic 25:57
Yeah, absolutely. And I think sometimes introverts will think, Well, even that feels scary, because I think back to the first podcast guesting I did, and my first thought was to say no to the invitation. I was like, Nope, not gonna happen. I don’t want to do it feels too scary. What if I can’t think of what to say? What if my voice sounds weird? And then I just convinced myself just give it a try. And that’s that’s a theme in my book, too.
Nicole Kepic 26:22
Yes, I’m saying just embrace your introversion. You don’t have to change who you are, but there is also an element of just a bit of your comfort zone. Just try the hard things at least once, because if you don’t like them, you don’t have to do them again, but at least try. So podcast guesting for me a few years ago was something that scared me, and I thought, well, I’m going to try it, and here I am now. I love it. It’s it feels so nice.
Kristen Doyle 26:44
It is definitely one of those things that gets a lot easier with practice, too. One of my big fears when I first started is I’m not going to I don’t like the way my voice sounds on on audio, and so everyone’s going to hate it, or I’m going to talk too fast or too slow or too whatever. But you know, it just the it’s one of those things that the more you do it, the easier it gets.
Nicole Kepic 27:09
For sure. And I also think we have a mutual friend, Laura Carmark. I’m going to shout her out. She is always saying, just be human. It’s okay. There’s no such thing as perfection, or don’t strive for perfection. So if you’re on a podcast and you stumble over your words, so what? It shows you’re human, it doesn’t matter. It sounds like a real conversation, yes, and really horrible mistakes can be edited out, although I’ve never asked somebody to edit stuff out. Hopefully this is not the case where it’s gonna happen the first time.
Kristen Doyle 27:36
I mean, I edit lots of, well, I don’t, but my wonderful podcast manager edits lots of things out of mine when I get halfway through a sentence and forget what I was saying and have to stop and think for a minute and then start over. But aside from, you know, we don’t, obviously no one wants to listen to me be quiet and think about what I was trying to say a few minutes ago. But aside from things like that, I think letting those, some of those little stumblings over words, letting those just be in the podcast, is not a bad thing. It lets people know you’re human. It lets people know that this is a real conversation.
Kristen Doyle 27:36
I was just talking to a friend. We just had Super Bowl week or weekend, and I was talking to a friend about commercials, and she pointed out, I guess I wasn’t watching quite as close as she was, but she felt like so many of the commercials were AI. And, you know, looking back, I can kind she named a few, and I was like, Oh yeah, that probably was AI. You’re right, because they just seemed a little off, a little too perfect, a little too whatever.
Kristen Doyle 28:39
And in this world where, I mean, you can make an AI video of yourself, you can clone your voice and make an AI bot sound like you and things. So in this world where that is a possibility, I think mistakes let people know that you’re a real person. This is really you. This is not some AI bot.
Nicole Kepic 29:00
Yeah, that is so refreshing. I didn’t notice that about the commercials. Mind you, I was just kind of in and out. I was not sitting down. I don’t watch football, let’s be honest. Yeah. So I didn’t notice that, but it doesn’t surprise me. It’s It’s kind of scary what AI can do now.
Kristen Doyle 29:15
It really is. So let’s talk about one other thing that I think my audience, for sure, struggles with, and that is how to find a way to feel authentic when you’re selling things, whether you’re selling products or services. It’s something I’ve had to work through a lot myself, and you probably wouldn’t say this about yourself, but I feel like you do this so effortlessly. It just seems so authentic and so normal and so not pushy. So what kind of tips can you share for how to sell without being like I said pushy or inauthentic?
Nicole Kepic 29:55
Oh wow. It really pains me to use this cliche. I almost don’t want to. But the you know, the cliche, selling is serving. You see, I’m cringing as I’m saying this, but I know, but it is so true to reframe the thought that, okay, I’m bothering people by selling. I’m taking their money. I’m doing them a disservice. When you reframe those thoughts to I’m serving my audience, I see that they have a problem and I have a solution that can help. Why wouldn’t I offer up that solution?
Nicole Kepic 30:23
That’s really all it is in my mind. So then it’s Yeah, and and it’s also, it’s also having confidence too, in what you’re offering. Because if you go in there, whether it’s on a sales call or in your copy or in another platform, if you go in really hesitant about what you’re offering, if you don’t feel confident in what you’re offering, then why would your readers or the person on the other end of the sales call? So it’s being confident without being pushy and abrasive, and you need this, and this is going to change your life, or else. So it’s that fine line.
Kristen Doyle 30:57
Yeah, it really is, and it’s a big mindset shift to think of selling as serving. And I know, yes, it is so cliche, but I think you said this in your book too. Cliches are cliches for a reason. They’re true. It is cliche, but when you really believe in your product or your service that you’re selling, then yeah, it is gonna make a difference for people. It will make their life better. Even if you’re selling crochet lessons, if they want to crochet, they will be happy when they finish, because they now learned how to do the thing they wanted to learn.
Kristen Doyle 31:33
You know, it doesn’t always have to be a huge like change the whole trajectory of your life, kind of transformation, but if you really believe that the product or the service or the course, whatever it is that you’re selling, is going to make a difference for people, then you are serving when you sell. That’s something I’ve really had to work through and lean into, like, Okay, I am making a difference for people with these things that I offer. So how can I talk about them and convey that like you said, confidently?
Nicole Kepic 32:05
Yeah, absolutely. And you also have to think, if you don’t present your solution, somebody else will. So they’re not going to get it from you, they’re going to go to your competitors and get it. So if you have the solution, why not have them get it from you, and then you can be the person helping them with their problem.
Kristen Doyle 32:21
I love that. All right. Before we wrap up, what is kind of one last piece of advice, one takeaway that you would give to business owners, maybe who are feeling pressure to show up differently in a way that doesn’t feel right for them online. You know, there’s people who maybe are more introverted, like you and I are, but they think they need to be super loud, and I don’t know, dance on reels or whatever, in order to be successful. What’s one piece of advice that you would give them?
Nicole Kepic 32:51
Yeah, I mean, it really goes back to just embracing your introversion and looking at it as a gift, not as a hindrance, not as something that’s setting you back and oh, I wish I wasn’t an introvert, because if not, I could be so much more successful. Or if I was an extrovert, I could be this or this. So it’s really just again, just loving the person you are, as cheesy as it sounds, but owning your introversion, introversion, embracing it, and just kind of staying in your lane.
Nicole Kepic 33:20
Stop comparing yourself to other people out there. It’s the whole comparisonitis thing, right? If you go down this dark hole of looking at everybody else’s social media feeds or websites or hopping on their email list to check out what they’re doing, is just gonna, you know, take you down this long and dark spiral. So as cheesy as it sounds, yeah, just embracing your introversion.
Kristen Doyle 33:42
Yet another cliche. Comparison is the thief of joy.
Nicole Kepic 33:46
I should have warned you, I’m a pretty cheesy person.
Kristen Doyle 33:51
I love that about you. But it’s so true. We just, you know, start embracing it and seeing it as a strength, not a weakness, and leaning into it as a strength.
Nicole Kepic 34:02
Yeah, and to that point again, saying yes to things versus saying no I can’t because I’m an introvert. Stop using it as an excuse, basically because I think some people I know I used to do that, so I’m just speaking for myself, but just setting those excuses aside and be willing to try things that you think are extroverted activities. But again, they’re not extroverted activities. You just might approach them differently.
Kristen Doyle 34:25
Exactly. I love that. Well, tell everyone like we just said, your book, Don’t Ask Me to Be Loud just launched yesterday, officially. Tell everyone where they can find it.
Nicole Kepic 34:39
Yeah, they can go to my website, Nicolekepic.com/book, and it is there for you to check out. Yeah, this is exciting. I feel like it has been a long time coming. I’ve wanted to write a book for years, like since I was 20. It might not have been a business book back then, but, yeah, that’s what it’s marked into. So this feels like a dream come true. Literally. To write this book. Again, cheese factor here.
Kristen Doyle 35:04
I know, and it has just been so fun to watch this take shape from kind of a goal that I don’t know correct me if I’m wrong. It almost seemed like several years ago, when you first said I want to write a book, it was like that was the end of the whole goal. I want to write a book, not sure what it’s going to be about yet, not sure what I’m going to do it. I just want to write a book.
Nicole Kepic 35:26
I mean, I probably shouldn’t admit it, but part of my motivation was a bit of jealousy, because I would see other business owners who were not writers writing a book, and then it would make me think, but wait a second, they’re not writers, and they’re writing a book. And then it’s almost like I felt jealous and frustrated and a little bit mad, and then I would realize I was just mad at myself because they were doing the thing, they were setting the goal, and they were doing it, and I wasn’t I was just talking about writing a book, and I was procrastinating. So finally I was like, okay, don’t be mad at them. Do it yourself, you know, and make it happen. So yeah, it was really just an effort in starting it and being consistent.
Kristen Doyle 36:04
Sometimes a little external pressure is good for us. And I would say, I know the subtitle of your book says, what is it? Hold on. I have to look so I get it exactly right. The introverted Girls Guide to Online Business. I know introvert is in the title, and I know girl is in the title. I would argue this is, this is for anybody who wants to learn about online business.
Kristen Doyle 36:27
There are so many just really good takeaways. And full disclosure, I’m not quite finished yet. I am working my way through. I’m a very slow non fiction reader. I read fiction books really fast, but I think that’s because I kind of skim sometimes, and with non fiction, I really want to pay attention, so I’m I’m a slower non fiction reader, but so many good takeaways, so many about so many different aspects of our businesses. From copywriting, obviously, to branding to marketing to money mindset. Just so many good takeaways in here. I am absolutely loving your book so far.
Nicole Kepic 37:09
Well thank you. Yeah. It’s funny, my husband was reading it. He has not finished the book, so you’re probably ahead of him, which I mean I should give him crap for. And he said about a couple chapters in, he was like, Well, I know this is for women and introverts. But he said the same thing. There’s lots of information in here that could be for everyone. And I said, I know, I know. I just, I just wanted to, you know, cater to my introvert people. But of course, as with niching in your business, there are always going to be people on the outside of that niche who are still attracted to it and can still benefit from it.
Kristen Doyle 37:41
Exactly, which you talk about in the chapter…
Nicole Kepic 37:44
Exactly Nice segue. Yeah.
Kristen Doyle 37:47
I mean, it is, you know, it’s just like we were talking about with emails. When you talk to one specific person, the content that you’re writing gets so much better, and it can still apply to other people who aren’t that specific person too. Well. Thank you so so much for being here. Always so fun to chat with you, and I am just so excited for you, and so proud of you for finishing this project and launching your book.
Nicole Kepic 38:14
Thank you. You have been so supportive along the way. So I’m so grateful for that and for having me back here.
Kristen Doyle 38:20
Anytime friend, anytime.
Kristen Doyle 38:21
You know what I love most about what Nicole shared with us today? She really gave us permission to show up as exactly who you are in your business. My hope is that you’re walking away with some fresh perspectives on how being an introvert can actually be a superpower in your business, and some practical strategies for marketing and selling in ways that feel natural to you.
Kristen Doyle 38:45
I’m just gonna say it, if you are an online business owner, which I’m betting you are, if you’re listening to this show, then you need to grab Nicole’s book – Don’t Ask Me to Be Loud. I’m working my way through it right now. I’m almost finished, and there have just been so many great takeaways that I’ll be using in my own business, and I know you’ll want to use them in yours too.
Kristen Doyle 39:08
So head to Nicolekepik.com/book to get your copy. That is NOT an affiliate link, even though I do have one, I just really believe that this book is one that can make a difference for you and your business. And if you want to connect with her on Instagram, you can find her at @nkcopywriting. You can find all the links in the show notes for today’s episode at Kristendoyle.co/episode136. Thanks for tuning in, and I’ll catch you next time.
